Curse

LouAl · Feb 17, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I accidentally 'scammed' someone about 2 months ago. I was buying a pile of something (I think the total transaction was for something like 2800 gold) and I typed into the trade screen the amount of plat and then the amount of gold, but I forgot to put in the 2 zeros after the number of gold (like 8 instead of 800). I didn't notice right away, but when I went to buy something else and had more money than I should have had I realized what must have happened. I tried to pm the seller but he was offline. It really made me feel like crap because scamming makes me very upset (so do beggars but that is off topic).

Inureface · Feb 17, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

[QUOTE=HDS]<snip>[QUOTE]

Alright first Mr. Eager to Flame, where did I say I was arguing with the mechanics of your argument?? Hell, I wasn't even talking directly to you, most of it was at cerb. My examples might've been whacked like the ccard thing but we all know its hypothetical. If a ccard company forced you to pay then sue the hell out of them. The bank example, alright how about a new one incase you didn't understand the POINT of it. [HYPOTHETICAL]You do a street trade with a guy, your 50$ for his game boy advance. You show him the 50 and he show you the GBA. You trade. When you get home you find out the GBA was completely gutted and he just filled it with junk. Now apply it to this situation-50k for 5 ectos. You trade 50k thinking you'll get 5 ectos. You give him the 50k but he gives you mursatt tokens (the gutted GBA). They look really similar but their values are very different. Now, it is PARTLY your fault for not noticing. But more of the fault is on HIM because if he wasn't scamming in the first place, none of this would've happened. [/HYPOTHETICAL]Now, will you please argue the POINTS isntead of the insignificant stuff like it takes an army to rob fort knox etc.?

Quote:

<snip>

^ THAT statement right there sounds like what a scammer would say. If you were a scammer, IT IS YOUR FAULT FOR EXPLOITING HIS STUPIDITY, you can't make up the excuse he was stupid so you had every right to scam him. Thats just trying to justify scamming someone.

Quote:

If you buy a vacuum cleaner, then vacuum your curtains and ruin them, is it the Hoover's job to make sure you are given new curtains? No. It's YOU who used the tool. It's YOU who used it unwisely. It's YOU who needs to grow up, accept that YOU did something wrong, learn from it, and learn the meaning of the word 'wisdom' so you won't get fooled again.

Our experiences teach us if we are willing to learn. Placing the blame on others for mistakes we could have easily prevented from occurring is the way of fools and the not-so-blissfully ignorant.

Alright the Hoover example to me just doesn't work but whatever, your point as I take it is, don't throw around the responsibility to other people when you mess up. Thats true, but no matter what, its still more of the scammers fault. Calling it your stupidity is harsh but probably true in most cases, but that doesn't change the fact that the scammer was the one who EXPLOITED your stupidity. If he put up the wrong item and you didn't notice, if he was a nice guy, he would tell you, sorry I put the wrong item. If he was a scammer he would've let the deal go through, thus scamming you. I think you're trying to get a point across to whiny people who thought they were gonna "own a sucka" like 5 ectos for 10k or whatever. Those kind of people, while they don't get my sympathy, were still wronged because they were going to pay 10k for 5 ectos, not 5 mursatt tokens.

Let me make this clear, no matter the reason WHY you got scammed, you were still SCAMMED by a SCAMMER which is against game rules. So if you're a scammer and you think you can BS Anet with the reason that he was stupid, if Anet is just, they'll ban your ass for a few days. Now you, the one that got scammed, learned your lesson, and should be careful in the future. But if you get scammed again, even though you probably deserved to get scammed, you were still WRONGED and the scammer should be punished regardless how stupid you are.

monk muffle · Feb 18, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

they should have 2 trade windows like one to think you have the right thing and the second window with all items in word form to make sure

eom · Feb 18, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

uhhhh...they do have the items in word form.

you know if you place the mouse over the item the desc pops up.

edit:

maybe what they need is a hand that comes out of the screen and slaps you in the face to get your attention.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

Al]You do a street trade with a guy, your 50$ for his game boy advance. You show him the 50 and he show you the GBA. You trade. When you get home you find out the GBA was completely gutted and he just filled it with junk. N

Bzzz!

Bad example. What you should stress is, the boy shows you his gameboy, you power it on and ensures it works (no different from mouse overing that HoD sword to see if it is INDEED a HoD sword), and then you say "omg i'm in a hurry, lemme pay you" and in your hurry you neglected to see that he has pulled the gameboy from before you, put it behind his back, and presented the gameboy back to you again. Was it the same gameboy? Who knows?

Either way you deserve it, yes, for not paying attention. Even the big corp stores nowadays check customers' bags nowadays when they deem it necessarily, so please don't give me some sh1t about "trust" and what nots. We live in a society where EVERYDAY LIFE is one that is of distrust.

Can't afford to get scammed? Don't trade! Simple as that.

DABhand · Feb 18, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Bzzz!

Bad example. What you should stress is, the boy shows you his gameboy, you power it on and ensures it works (no different from mouse overing that HoD sword to see if it is INDEED a HoD sword), and then you say "omg i'm in a hurry, lemme pay you" and in your hurry you neglected to see that he has pulled the gameboy from before you, put it behind his back, and presented the gameboy back to you again. Was it the same gameboy? Who knows?

Either way you deserve it, yes, for not paying attention. Even the big corp stores nowadays check customers' bags nowadays when they deem it necessarily, so please don't give me some sh1t about "trust" and what nots. We live in a society where EVERYDAY LIFE is one that is of distrust.

Can't afford to get scammed? Don't trade! Simple as that.

Dude that was harsh

But again its easy to blame the victim than the person who did the crime.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABhand

Dude that was harsh

But again its easy to blame the victim than the person who did the crime.

The thing is, it is not like you as a seller are so powerless or vulnerable against it. Unless females turn out to be the stronger gender and they are physically bigger than males (in the context of my retort against the rape example) where they are capable of fending for themselves, they are pretty much helpless against the offender. In GW on the other hand... well, I really fail to see where the issue is.

It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence. It is due to your own negligence.

Keep repeating that, maybe it will go down easier. And yes, it is a harsh reality, as with the population of GW which has demonstrated itself to you to be a dog eat dog world when you got scammed.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

Let me make this clear, no matter the reason WHY you got scammed, you were still SCAMMED by a SCAMMER which is against game rules. So if you're a scammer and you think you can BS Anet with the reason that he was stupid, if Anet is just, they'll ban your ass for a few days. Now you, the one that got scammed, learned your lesson, and should be careful in the future. But if you get scammed again, even though you probably deserved to get scammed, you were still WRONGED and the scammer should be punished regardless how stupid you are.

Yes yes, but it is not like Anet is going to magically absolve you of your stupidity and reverse the trade, so the whole point is MOOT. Regardless of what you say about whom the blame should lie with in a scam, guess what? It not absolutely no difference at all to the gaming population at large.

If the "guru commission" decided that the victim is to be blamed, the ingame scammers will probably just laugh and get this extra glee when they subsequently scam another victim. If the blame is pointed at the scammers, well who cares? It is not like it will change Anet's policies, nor will the scammers read this thread and feel extra guilty about it (they are scammers, mind you).

And lastly, remember what they said about opinions and assholes. Everybody has one of their own and they all stink to be honest.

DABhand · Feb 18, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

True, but if its a persons first time being scammed, would it not be better to say they got a lesson than to be told it was their fault?

If its 2nd or more time they have been scammed then yes, there is a chance they can share the blame.

But first timers will always get caught out, perhaps being too trusting?

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABhand

True, but if its a persons first time being scammed, would it not be better to say they got a lesson than to be told it was their fault?

If its 2nd or more time they have been scammed then yes, there is a chance they can share the blame.

But first timers will always get caught out, perhaps being too trusting?

Who gets the blame is not relevant. The point is, is the victim willing to fess up to the whole situation and admit that the deed happened due to his own screw up?

Rape cases or gameboy switcheroos or robbing fort knox notwithstanding, nothing changes the fact that you are the one who pressed the accept button in full knowledge of its consequence.

By "full knowledge" I mean nothing about the trade is obfuscated from you. It is all there presented as it is (ie: 10 ectos for 83g).

The fact that you are tired, or in a hurry, or god forbid that the scammer induced you to be in such a situation is irrelevant.

So what if the scammer tried to pull it on you? Are you under any form of threat to accept? No. Did you accept? Yes. Is that what you want? No. Is that what the scammer want. Yes.

Well tough. Too bad. Just admit it is that final act of yours that sealed the deal and finalised the fate of whatever <insert godly item here, like there is such a thing in GW>

Diablo™ · Feb 18, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

For some reason I dont think this message is getting across...

DABhand · Feb 18, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Who gets the blame is not relevant. The point is, is the victim willing to fess up to the whole situation and admit that the deed happened due to his own screw up?

Rape cases or gameboy switcheroos or robbing fort knox notwithstanding, nothing changes the fact that you are the one who pressed the accept button in full knowledge of its consequence.

By "full knowledge" I mean nothing about the trade is obfuscated from you. It is all there presented as it is (ie: 10 ectos for 83g).

The fact that you are tired, or in a hurry, or god forbid that the scammer induced you to be in such a situation is irrelevant.

So what if the scammer tried to pull it on you? Are you under any form of threat to accept? No. Did you accept? Yes. Is that what you want? No. Is that what the scammer want. Yes.

Well tough. Too bad. Just admit it is that final act of yours that sealed the deal and finalised the fate of whatever <insert godly item here, like there is such a thing in GW>

When I mean first timers, I mean the people who dont know the trade system to well.

They then trust the scammer when told to do this and that, not knowing whats going on. It can be very unnerving and unsettling for them. In the end they will just press accept to get it over with thinking the deal was done.

In a perfect world, everyone would know how to work the trade system, but it isnt perfect, the best they can do is to learn from it.

Ive seen people being called idiots in ascalon when they said "Oh no what can I do ive been scammed".. Its not really a nice thing for them, not everyone is good at the game than others..

If i see this happeneing, ill let them know in pm how to prevent it again, if everyone just took a few minutes to do this then perhaps scamming may indeed fall a bit, not completely but a bit, which is good.

Just because we have finished the game, done the titans, doesnt mean we can ridicule the new players, arent we supposed to be friendly and present a good playing atmosphere they can feel safe in?

=HT=Ingram · Feb 18, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

This is the problem with the trade button as is... It is the one thing in the game that is exploited DAILY... thus it either needs removed entirely... Meaning ALL trading is done through NPCs... (That's my preference)

OR, some sort of Locked Verification system needs to be implemented...

Trade
Offer to offer..
submit
accept...
(here is what needs to be added) Prompt: "you are trading Item A for Quantity B or ITEM B... are you sure you want to proceed? yes or no."

If its what was agreed too, click yes. Trade complete...
If not, Click no, and its canceled...

This will prevent the scamming 100%... By locking the offers and having a verification on the trade, trading becomes secure...

DABhand · Feb 18, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Good Idea ingram, that would prevent a high percentage

But some new players will still get scammed for black dyes etc.

An NPC? Are we talking auction house?

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

This is the problem with the trade button as is... It is the one thing in the game that is exploited DAILY... thus it either needs removed entirely... Meaning ALL trading is done through NPCs... (That's my preference)

Listen to what I've got to say in response to your suggestion:

This is the problem with the weapons as is... It is the one thing in the game that is exploited DAILY by farmers... thus it either needs removed entirely... Meaning ALL attacks are done through NPCs...

This is the problem with the protective spirit as is... It is the one thing in the game that is exploited DAILY by 55 hp monks... thus it either needs removed entirely... Meaning ALL protection are done through OTHER SKILLS...

Right, blame the tool, not the idiot. Bravo, bravo.

eom · Feb 18, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

yeah, great, that's just what we need is more clicking.......safety guards on knives.....warning labels on ladders and coffee cups --- all because of some retard.

sry -- is 'idiot' acceptable?

maybe they should add a step after that asking if he's REALLY sure in case he wasn't paying attention to the first question.

generik · Feb 18, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by eom

yeah, great, that's just what we need is more clicking.......safety guards on knives.....warning labels on ladders and coffee cups --- all because of some retard.

sry -- is 'idiot' acceptable?

maybe they should add a step after that asking if he's REALLY sure in case he wasn't paying attention to the first question.

In fact we need to have a dialog box pop up and say "Please sign your name here to signify to the terms and conditions of this trade. 'I, Generik, hereby accept 35g in exchange for a Victo's Battle Axe'

*Accept*

No matter how many safeguards there are, there will always still be idiots

Lasareth · Feb 18, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

This thread has degenerated massively. I'm sure whoever's wanted to made a point by now has, and those who don't agree will continue to disagree.

As it is... review the posts... make up your own minds, and be content with that.